Egyptian Chronicles: Naguib Sawiris on Charlie Rose’s Show

Thursday, September 11, 2008

Naguib Sawiris on Charlie Rose’s Show

Thanks to Marwa Rakha

Charlie Rose interviewed Naguib Sawiris in July 2008. Sawiris is excellent talker ,seriously he knows how to choose the words when and where. I do not like how he described Mubarak but may be this is because he knows if he did not praise he would not return back home.Of course I refuse his comparison between the Muslims and Christians mind set . It is not his first interview that causes controversy , he is the master of controversy thanks to his personality , I mean no one of his brothers causes too much controversy in interviews.
Sawiris now presents a weekly TV show in Ramadan on his OTV on Friday.
Naguib’s connections with Israel is still causing a buzz in the media in Egypt.
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30 comments :

  1. This man is a hypocrite. He claims to be a secular yet his comments prove otherwise. "It was my country first" sounds like something coming straight from the mouth of a religous Egyptian fanatic. You know exactly who I'm refering to here! These claims are also identical to the fuckin' zionist mentality, so it doesn't surprize me at all to see him defending Israel.

    And you're spot on about him kissing Mubarak's ass or he wouldn't be allowed back into the country. Just by looking at his body language you can tell he's uncomfortable answering the question and that he's lying through his teeth. Mubarak is a reasonable man MY ASS! Roo7 el3ab gherha ya shater.

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  2. He might be economically a Guru or genius but the last things I could expect about this man is to be that non diplomatic nor to have that horrible accent. where the F* did he learn English? Assuit?

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  3. Language proficiency and accent are two different things. Accent is indicative of learning a new foreign language after the vocal tract is fully developed. In such case, the speaker pronounces the vows and consonants of the new language using the original language. Accent may be reduced by speech therapy, not by learning in Cairo instead of Assuit!.



    There are many statements by Sawiris in this interview one can object to. Yet the most appreciated point is the invitation to conduct dialog in atmosphere of civility and mutual respect. Unfortunately, those who relay on 3 or 4 letter words may find it difficult to participate.

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  4. @anonymous , I do not defend him but his mother is a real fine lady ,it is not her problem that her son got strange opinions

    @msareya,he is hypocrite for sure , but I think any businessman in Egypt will say the same thing about Mubarak especially he wants to keep his business in Egypt
    He is not that secular as he says by the way

    @He and She, I do not know where he learned but I think it is not a big thing nor the thing we should comment about it here in his interview

    @anonymous, I agree with you , he said several things we should discuss , already the Americans viewers at Charlie Rose website did not stood too much at his accent , in fact it did not stop them from admiring him

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  5. N. American Princess9/14/2008 05:46:00 AM

    Really I understood him and my mother tongue is English so the accent is not a big deal. Call a call centre in India and see how the English language can really be butchered. Even subtitles can't help them.

    Anyways, what I found interesting about this man...and he is interesting is that he is so frustrated with the Chinese and the Indians. He has obviously been very successful and he does not take failure easily. Every successful individual knows that success cannot be achieved without failure (he didn't get that memo). Even pulling his business out from Iraq was something he seemed bitter about. He said it wasn't worth losing employees' lives yet he then says that if he could have made money there, he would have stayed. Kidnappings and deaths aside. He's a businessman that says he is afraid of nothing and he sounds like he is close to his church.

    Yeah the comment about it being his country first was typical of Copts that believe Egypt should be theirs and theirs alone.

    He definitely isn't a fan of muslims. Now if muslims in Egypt were smart, they wouldn't be using mobinil as their service provider. Also, agreeing with what the government did with Ayman Nour..bogus..I think going on about how he disliked Nasser's policies because they slowed down the economic development of Egypt..makes me wonder if this guy is even remotely aware that the plight of the average Egyptian was much better then than it is now under his Buddy Hosni. But then what does sawiris care about the plight of the average Egyptian..afteall all most average Egyptians are muslim and he was there 1st...

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    Replies
    1. If Indians are so bad in English then why are the Americans setting up call centres in India?

      Indian and other BRIC nation will rule the world in the future.

      Americans will have keep licking their ass.

      Delete
  6. Leaving religion aside, which is hard for many to do, we should all be proud of Sawiris. An Egyptian who has accomplished so much and actually tries to give back to his people is admirabale.

    Second, I agree with his comment that there should be separation of government and religion. Egypt should be for all Egyptians, Muslims, Christians and non believers alike.

    I watched the whole interview, and wanted to know what you disagreed with specifically, and if you can reference the time point in the video, that would be helpful.

    Thanks for posting the interview Z.

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  7. @Ahmed, you welcome dear
    I disagree on his point that Mubarak is a wise man
    I disagree on kissing American administration's ass all the time
    I disagree that point where the Christians are more open minded
    Look I agree that he is brilliant example and we should proud of him but sometimes he needs to keep his opinions to himself ,if he is really smart
    He should not be the Donald Trump of Egypt

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  8. I don't know Z, if he's truly a secular or not. I watched several interviews for Nagib Sawiris and I'll admit that I was fascinated by this man and his accomplishments, he's a self made businessman who didn't make his money from robbing banks and poor people. I also like the fact that he's contributed to solve the unemployment crisis by creating job opportunities for young people. But I just don't like his ideas or his views towards Muslims in general. I think that sort of mentality is dangerous and not to be taken lightly. It may have been "his country first" (not true) but Muslims are now here, and they are here to stay. He claimed more than once in an interview that he is a liberal who would choose Egypt over his own religion anyday, which makes me happy to hear such a thing. But now he contradicts himself when he comes out with statements like this one and logically that makes him a hypocrite and a liar. He comes off just as fanatic as those he calls extremists. His Mubarak and US ass kissing is shameful to say the least. "The greatest country on earth"... are you fucking kidding me??? How sad is it that the richest man in Egypt is an insecure self loathing Egyptian whose national pride comes from another country! I also agree with you that his remark on Christians being more open minded is ridiculous and pure nonsense. In my opinion the only difference between the two is the hegab. Everything else is the exact same. Coptic extremists are widespread and they keep increasing in response to the Muslim Brotherhood, resulting in more violence. I don't see Mr. Sawiris condemning the acts of his own people, which leads me to think that he supports extremists.

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  9. @anonymous , I agree with you 100% and this is why I do not like Naguib to open his mouth publicly ,for sure he is not like Ahmed Ezz but his views are so provoking and contradicting his claims of being a secular because he would be a real secular if he criticizes the Christians in the same way he criticizes the Muslims

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  10. @Masreyah
    * Strange you say the man is Hypocrite, a fanatic won’t invite others to sit together and reach common ground based on respect and humanity when he mentioned the Christian, Moslem, Jews dialogue thing.

    * It is a fact that it is his country first! You can’t deny it, can you? Yet he never said "I want to kick the Moslems’ out of my country", nor he fired the thousand of Moslems working in his factories and enterprises, while he helped the Egyptian economy and the whole Egyptian population in numerous projects feeding more Moslems than Coptics. He even admired the Iranian people but not the regime, a thing that many other countries just slash the Iranians, regime and people, for differences in belief. He defended the Civil country rather than the Devilish mix between religion and civil laws which could be highly misused, a thing that brought the crusades with their horrible effects on the Arab countries and the European countires as well, and the mix that is unfortunately bringing all the Arabs into lagging from the whole world civilization by centuries now, the world learnt the lesson of mixing religion with civil laws the hard way long time ago, and we Egyptians, are still thinking that it is the “solution”. The guy is definitely a secular person with a Coptic background; would his Coptic background demean his intentions to be secular?! If so, then we should demean any person from Islamic background telling us that he accepts the woman to lead in the government or Judicial roles and we should definitely demean him if he tells us that we treat Christians and Jews the same as Moslems!!!!

    * Please decently and fairly revisit the facts and science. Using the Zionist hanger reveals immaturity of a mentality that is under the influence of the “Great Zionist Conspiracy theory against Moslems or Arabs” I humbly advice you to set free from this haunting idea of the Zionist conspiracy! It’s keeping us backward. Or else, I won’t blame you if you say that the black smoke cloud of burning rice ashes which came years earlier on Egypt was a chemical weapon being tested in Cairo or the Bird flu is an Israeli invention to conquer the world!!!!

    * Question, why do you use the “f” and “a” words…??? I don’t think you come from Manhattan or New York, your nick name is Masreyah which means Egyptian girl?

    * I agree with you, his body language indicated to us a real unease in answering the question, and this means he is not a hypocrite, hypocrites manage to hide their real feelings, and say opposite things, this guy didn’t, but instead he looked into the filled half of the glass, why would he look into the empty half of the glass which might cost him issues with a dectatorship regime…he mentioned extremely important positives about Mubarak (Although I still see he has serious flaws in his regime), which if Mubarak didn't do, we would have been comparing ourselves in Egypt now to Sudan or Yemen or even worse, Afghanistan or Pakistan!

    @He and She
    * Superficial people stay superficial… do what the Arabs have been doing for centuries, keep looking into his language or accent or whatever superficial stuff and just forget or ignore about the value added and the lessons learned from his views.

    @Anonymous (1)
    * I admire your knowledge level, especially about differences between language and accent and about the vocal tract thing, nice piece of info. And I also like your way of describing those who could not participate in a dialog with civil and mutual respect.

    @Zeinobia (1)
    * Saying Naguib is not secular lakes evidence; his opinions against mixing religion and civil laws together were crystal clear…or is it because it’s coming from a Coptic person that you don’t believe him? The important question before debating he’s secular or not, do we originally believe in a Civil country or a religious country? The answer will define our way dealing to the views with either attacking or supporting Sawiris…

    * One last thing, I’m seriously proud to see this sublime, highly intellectual blog from an Egyptian girl who has great values and interests in politics, bloging, history, your blog is a good example of an intellectual discussion board…thanks for opening these issues here…

    @North American Princess
    * I agree with you, the comment about it being his country was typical of Copts, because it is unfortunately the fact! But claiming that it should be theirs and theirs alone is not true! He or the Copts never claimed this…

    * Don’t you also agree with the fact that the Nasser’s regime brought the country into serious debts and poverty and international strains and and even loses of 2 wars not only to Egypt but to the Arabs till now? Do you think that Nasser’s time brought the GDP higher than it is now for the normal Egyptian, knowing that Egypt now has the second highest GDP after South Africa in the continent while Egypt’s population now has doubled than it was at Nasser’s regime???

    @Ahmed
    * Looking into the half filed glass…thanks for your simple positive thinking…we need lots of this for our country to have lots of Sawiris’ and catch the train of modern countries…

    @Zeinobia (2)
    * You absolutely have the right to agree or disagree, but a credible bias is the one based on givens and facts! Sawiris was not as you claimed, kissing xxxx of the American Administration “all the time”…he even made a clear mockery of the coming US president-to-be when Chris mentioned about the elections. The fact that many reasonable and fair people don’t deny, is that the US is a dream land, it is the land for freedom of speech and religion and practice and..and..and…which Naguib mentioned in his interview, check how many immigrants land or dream to land on the US from all over the world, or may be we claim again that it is an illusion or they are crazy people??? Is it really an illusion that millions of people are still following after WW II, check how many useful inventions helping humanity and the wellbeing of man came from the US. Now you might think, I’m overlooking the benefits of the Arabs research and arts in the early ages, but let me ask, what did we as Arabs or Egyptians do with all hte science hype that we had previously, we cherish the history but we don't use the context of history, or may be I overlooked the wars led by the US in Islamic countries, NO, I’m not overlooking that…it is a BIG mistake of the US administration that they didn't understand different cultures. And I put the blame on the Administration…yet, this administration is not ALL AMERICA…it is people in authority in America and there is a huge difference. Although I have no doubt about the good will of the US administration to protect their people, which is anyones right, yet they are doing it in a way that is definitely perceived wrongly.

    * Well, actually I would say that Donald Trump does not love his country as Sawiris does, or else, Sawiris would have easily bought his peace of mind and enjoyed his wealth out there any place in the world, but he did NOT. While Trump is trumping in TV shows and other stuff for his publicity and own wealth.

    @Anonymous (2)
    * Totally right, he is a self made man…he is helping the Egyptian people a lot without them noticing his good to them, imagine he closed all his businesses, factories, companies and enterprises in Egypt and decided to leave and live in the US for example, do you blame him for doing that? You can't, it's his money and his wealth, yet he didn't, imagine how bad the effect will be on helpless Egyptians, workers, and families affected by their accountables who became jobless?

    * Yes, he is not a fan of Moslems brotherhood and the extremist Moslem current now that is drifting the whole country into a religious estate, he is a secular person…No one would doubt that he is, in the same way, I don't doubt that he would be against a country that is ruled by the Coptic Church laws, or do you think he would?!!!!!

    Again, ”fanatic”, “extremist”, “hypocrite”, “liar” are words used unfairly, while the facts speak by themselves which are completely different than these words and claims.

    And again, denial that the US is greatest country on earth is up to you, but unfortunately the facts scream in the face of the deaf and are as bright as a sun in the face of a blind one! I can understand that we have hatred towards the US, but let’s not loose our objectiveness because we disagree with them…or we just don’t like them because they are ahead of us or have a different religion than us (talking about the administration)

    * Again, if he didn’t love his country he would have done much much worse things than your mind could imagine…No one debates his patriotism to his home land, if so, show me one single act he has done indicates that he betrays his country, lies to people, and doesn't love his own country, which is his before many others…

    * Now here comes the hit!!! “coptic extremists are widespread”
    1st, I have never seen a Coptic blowing himself to kill others, or attacking mosques as they don’t have a license to be built, or slaughter people after getting out of the prayers in a mosque, or, or, or…if you have seen, please let me see him, I just can’t wait to see this fantasy imaginary creature!

    2nd, Sincerely, the only objective point you mentioned when you said “in response to the Moslem brotherhood”, so you objectively and inclusively admit that the Moslem Brotherhood is affecting the Copts that they are responding to them…and do you know what is the response that Copts do?! They kill Moslem families, burn mosques; attack Azhar with literature and heating people against all Moslems by rumors and lies, etc…right?
    I bitterly laughed when I read your words about Coptic extremism and their “acts”…I’m really sorry for those who are really brilliant and intelligent like you but overlook facts, and think with their hearts rather than their minds!

    Now let's see if we have free blogging and free speech in our Egyptian blogs or not by seeing if the comments above will be posted or not on the famous Egyptian Chronicles blog! I have followed your blog rules, no insult, and clean wordings ;-)

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  11. @anonymous , I think now you see that we have free blogs that respect all opinions , I do not delete comments what ever in it as long as they are clean and not spam
    Now it is good to know that my blog became famous
    now regarding my points
    For Years I used to admire Naguib so much , a great example of businessman
    but My dear sir I believe that Naguib lost his secular identity in my opinion when he entered zones he should not enter as a businessman and as Christian with my all due respect in that particular time when there is a sectarian tension no one can deny.
    When he goes and attack veil despite most of the Egyptian women Muslim wear it widely over and over in local and international media "Newsweek" justifying it by the freedom of expression
    Yes he is free in saying whatever he wants but he should know there are red lines not to be crossed in that way , not in this time
    wise men know what to say and when
    it is just like throwing more fuel on the fire
    by the way I was not with the boycott calls to his companies during that time
    Can he criticize the Church in the same way and the Church is not that angelic as establishment with my all respect to it or ??
    about America , look he should attack Bush despite if it were not for the Bush administration he would not have entered Iraq despite he left it
    Please do not lecture me about America ,the land of dreams ,invention and the leader of free world , here I am speaking about the administration and the administration in the State is not only the President.
    about Trump you do underestimate him , well Naguib is turning more and more in to Trump now he got his own TV show on his channel , he can't divorce and marry Supermodels , but his wife looks like supermodel for Sure

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  12. @Mr Sawiris PR, Your seem to be perfect defense of Copts in Egypt does not seem to be so perfect when it comes to history. Its a myth to say that Copts were in Egypt before Muslims. May be as a religion yes but not as people since the majority of Egyptians were without religion before Islam entered Egypt. It was for Islam and Muslims who freed Copts from the Roman atrocities and slaughtering. Can you deny that?

    Secondly, Don't you agree that Mr Sawiris wealth could not have been achieved without his Muslim customers since 80-85% of Egypt population are Muslims.

    Thirdly, Egypt is and will be a Muslim country whether or not you or Mr Sawiris like it. Religious based parties should be allowed like they are allowed in advanced countries like Germany.

    Lastly, Arguing that Islam is bringing all Arabs into lagging from the civilized world is totally untrue and naive to say the least.
    By the way do you know that Iran's GDP is almost double of Egypt's GDP.

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  13. Part (1)

    Dear Zeinobia

    Let me first start by telling you and all the blog visitors kol sana wentom tayebeen and may it be a Eid Mubarak to you and all your beloved ones.

    And sincerely I’m glad that this topic is grabbing your attention and taking from you some time to read and comment on it. It means that it's something really essential to you who care for Egypt and for its welfare.

    Secondly, I agree with you in most of what you have said, I just have to disagree with you on the idea that Naguib doesn't have the guts to criticize the Church, again, I have NO doubt that he could and would criticize the church for the following 3 reasons:

    1. He doesn’t fear that the Church will punish him or tell him “naughty boy”…there have been many people who were attacking the Church recently and the Coptic Pope -who is sincerely loved from the vast majority of the Copts who are support him and the moderate enlightened Moslems- and though, none of those attacking the Church or the head of the Church have been condemned or been commented on by the church, the church doesn’t care about those, unless they have demeaned something with the Church’s faith and/or rituals. Actually there are people outside the Church institute and even outside the Christian faith are defending the church and the Pope.
    2. Naguib is a secular person, he would definitely criticize the church if it starts to get into politics and mix religion with state for personal benefits!
    3. Finally Naguib and many other Egyptians, counting me, have never seen the officials in the church influencing people not to accept humans from different races, religions, and country’s, the church never cared about politics and stat might. Actually the only thing that I have on Pope Shenouda is that he did mix religion and politics for one instance in his life, years ago, when he associated the Palestinian case with the Copts pilgrimage to Jerusalem. Although no one denies that it is a real patriotic and national sense for the Palestinians, but the Copts have deep desires to visit Jerusalem and yet they abide to the Church’s directive and the national sense. So, I’m sure the moment that the Church uses it’s spiritual influence on the Copts whom are real religious people to gain political grounds, it will be the moment, that not only Naguib but many Copts, will take a stand for it, a civilized peaceful stand though...

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  14. Part (2)

    @Zeinobia

    Commenting on the sectarian tension, I need to ask you one question…have you ever heard of “Any” Coptic attacking Mosques? Unfortunately “Some” Moslems are attacking churches! Have you ever heard of a Coptic attacking Moslems with a knife after their midday prayers in the Mosque and shouting “The Cross is my Pride and Power”? Unfortunately a Moslem did while shouting “Allaho Akbar”! Have you ever heard about “some” Copts refusing a Mosque to be built claiming it is not approved by the authorities? Unfortunately “Many” Moslems did, they even set fires in the Copts worshiping places although they did have all the official papers! Have you ever heard about a Coptic blowing himself to kill the infidels around him because they attack the Church or because he hates the Moslem regime? Unfortunately “some” Moslems did. Not mentioning the humiliating public attacks on the national media that are the real cause of fueling it more and more. I would definitely agree with you that not all the Copts are angles and with no wrong doing, no, there are Copts who are sinful and full of transgressions, and bad behavior, but you know what? They NEVER do it due to their religious induction, but rather because they are “badly raised” people. You might claim that what I say is not true! I’ll tell you this, revisit the media’s credibility and you’ll know the truth. Revisit your sources of information and you’ll sense the truth, revisit your internal biases and you’ll know the truth. Listen to the Copts as you listen to the Media (not even mentioning the Islamic Media), and then use your intuition and decide by yourself if what I’m saying is true or mixed up. It is lovely how God gave us 2 ears and one mind in the middle, to listen to the 2 sides of a subject and let the mind, an objective one though, decide of which makes more sense. After all these burdens the Copts are bearing for many years now, do you deny Naguib or others for even the very basic human right to speak it out loudly and say their sufferings??? So if a Copt speaks about his sufferings, then he is heating the air, and if a Moslem humiliates Copts in different aspects we say it is freedom of speech??? I think you are fairer than accepting this as an Egyptian, aren’t you?

    Nevertheless, I do agree that he doesn’t have to generalize that ALL the Moslems are like that…there are really wonderful examples of Moslems who are really objective and loving and accepting differences and I befriend those when I meet them and extremely respect them, as they give others the chance to be different than them without hammering them and I’m sure you are one of those, from the enlightenment I see all your blog cases that you discuss.

    Last question: What’s wrong with Naguib’s wife looking like a model? Unless you mean something else by the word model other than “Well dressed and nice looking and representable”!!!

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  15. Part (1) @Hazem

    Dear Mr. History Professor (Hazem)

    Again, I really wish to start by saying happy festive to you and Eid Mubarak to you and your beloved ones too…May it be full of joy and intimate moments.

    Now to your response, let me mention the following:

    First thanks for claiming that my comments are “seem-to-be-perfect” it means that you almost liked it or may be I wish that you liked it…

    Now, tell me, when or where did you study the Coptic history of Egypt? Have you ever heard about it and heard about how it influenced the Egyptian people and the Islamic people as well? Where have you learnt about the religion of the Egyptians before Islamic conquers? Did you study it in school? Did you read a publication about the Copts history and “chronicles”? Did you read different sources or did you just pick a small piece of info from a friend of yours, or overheard it in program in the media or what? Did you ever go to the Coptic Museum in “Old Egypt”?

    You know my friend; your very first comment about the Egyptian population religion during the Copts time in Egypt confirmed 2 things:

    1. You are illiterate about your own country’s history, or to be fair and specific, about your Coptic history!
    2. The 1950 years of Copts history is not educated enough, if any, to our Egyptian boys and girls in our schools and syllabuses, which is a pity and has some bad indications!

    To give you a hint, about “your” country’s history, and please check my information, don’t take it as it is from me because I might be deceiving you, but I suppose you are a person who likes to seek for knowledge and likes to know facts, so to give you a hint. Christianity started in Egypt in the 50’s AD, by the power of one man with his one mouth and his faith in one God! This man’s name is Mark; they call him in the Coptic history Saint Mark the Evangelist…A small community of Christians developed in Alexandria in the late 1st century, and became more numerous by the end of the second century. The Egyptians embraced the new faith, and Christianity quickly spread throughout Egypt within half a century of St Mark's arrival in Alexandria. Now, how long was it until Islam came to Egypt? Almost 600 years!!! From around the year 100 to the year 700 (~600 years, less than half of the Islamic history all in all) you claim that Egypt was not a Christian country but rather hosted a few people called Christians/Copts and the majority were still atheists or non-believers until Islam came???

    Don’t believe me? Try this link…I made sure that it is not a Coptic resource link so that if you don’t doubt the credibility of the Coptic sources you won’t doubt this one when I send it to you from an impartial resource…
    http://www.egyptologyonline.com/coptic_egypt.htm

    In another source, the Wikipedia site…it is mentioned the following:
    “Christianity spread throughout Egypt within half a century of Saint Mark's arrival in Alexandria as is clear from the New Testament writings found in Bahnasa, in Middle Egypt, which date around the year AD 200, and a fragment of the Gospel of John, written in Coptic, which was found in Upper Egypt and can be dated to the first half of the second century. In the second century, Christianity began to spread to the rural areas, and scriptures were translated into the local language, namely Coptic.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_Christianity
    I have to admit, the Copts were harshly persecuted by the Roman’s authorities, I agree with you totally, but if you know the history completely, you would know that they were also persecuted during the reins of many Moslem Wally’s and Caliphs, the introduction of Islam in Egypt had 2 arms, one with the power of army’s and one with the power of politics, and by politics I mean the peaceful/soft political words to gain the trust of the original habitants and then impose the system after gaining physical and political might. The only references that I have here are Coptic resources that I am ready to put their references to you but and I’m sure you will not accept them, because they are convicting some of the Islamic periods on the Copts and they are Coptic historians. Not because they didn’t happen but rather because it’s blaming, I can hardly find Islamic references convicting their rulers in the Coptic history…but when I hit with one, I’ll be glad to publish it to you…
    For Naguib’s wealth, I’ll have 2 options, Either:
    1. Agree with your claim, and hence conclude too that he also employs 80-85% Moslem workforce!
    2. Or disagree with your claim, and conclude that his wealth is from his abroad investments which means it is providing wondrous chances for Egyptians to work outside Egypt and show to the world that they are capable and earn good money for themselves and there families. And if you don’t believe me, check the OT business in Italy, how many Egyptians have taken jobs and control of an Italian network in Italy!

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  16. Part (2) @Hazem

    For the issue of a Country’s religion, if you consider the country’s religion is decided by the count of its population, then I totally agree with you, Egypt is a Moslem country, and Bahrain and Qatar is a Shiite Moslem country, and UAE is a multi-religious country (if not Christian) having Moslems as minority, and Germany is a Christian country, and Spain used to be a Moslem country but then returned Christian country, and who know? etc…etc…
    But if you are considering a country’s religion is by forceful imposition then you are mistaken, this was in old ages, because you can not just ignore or deny the existence of the 12-16 Million Christian population in Egypt and force them to live under the Abaya of Islamic Shariia and laws!
    This statement of “whether or not you or Mr. Sawiris like it” seems to be dragging us to a fanatic, forceful, and unjust imposition of beliefs…don’t you agree with me?!

    Yes, religious based parties should be allowed, on the base of civil laws of the whole country, not on the religious laws! Take Turkey as an example. What the heck does religion has to do with the State; religion is a relation between Man and God, while State is a relation between People and Facilitators (government). And thanks for admitting that Germany is an advanced country, the country that never made religion interfere with the state, one of the things that made them “advanced” in this sense.
    Last but not least…Are you mixing or associating GDP with the religion of the country? Hence Japan should be the lowest GDP because they almost have no religion?!!!

    Give Egypt the oil reserves and resources of Iran and reduce its population by 1/5, and educate its population with an open mind to accept differences of others and you’ll get the same or better GDP than Iran. Let me tell you a comment I got from an Iranian guy when I was in Saudi. He said that: “Iran is EXACTLY the same as the US, the US has a lousy administration and a great people, Iran has a lousy administration and great people”, and you know what he mentioned too? He mentioned that: “Iranians are pro western and hate their administration, exactly the same as the US. May be that is the key to their prosperity, it has nothing to do with religion...

    And I wish we don't drag into a religious dispute here...we are discussing an Egyptian Icon and his views about the state and religion. Once again, thanks for the chance here... :-)

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  17. @Anonymous, unfortunately the Church is mixing religion with Church ,supporting Mubarak and his son ,forcing many of the believers in to their political convictions
    About the sectarian division well sure there are other incidents from the other side with my all respect there are several incidents the latest one is the massacre which a mother and her child got killed in it
    about the Pope decision in 1970s ,well on the contrary I respect that decision so much

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  18. @Mr Sawiris PR, I feel sorry for the guy who pays you money to defend him and instead you are actually hurting him. Your response to Zeinobia's post and myself proves rather than denies what Zeinab said about Mr Sawiris. I don't know why you reminded me with Priest Zakaria Boutros while reading your response. Maybe because you are twisting facts and interpreting things in a way to suit your belief. I will try to be concise and not using jargons like the way you did.
    First let me say that I am not a history professor and I don't claim to be one, are you?
    However, I grew up in Egypt and I studied history in Egyptian schools. To tell you the truth, I found it difficult to find an unbiased source citing the history of Copts in Egypt prior to Islam. Then I came across excerpt from a book named “Egypt and old world civilizations” by Dr Henry Ryad, ex-general manager of the Egyptian museum. BTW Dr Ryad is Coptic. I will try to translate some lines that contradict what you are claiming.

    Dr Ryad in his book said that researchers disagree about the exact date Christianity began in Egypt. Some researchers said that the date was the first century by Mark. Some said it was the second century during which Coptic language was created. Others said it was either 284 AD during Roman Emperor Dekledianos reign or 313 AD through the Edict of Milan, signed by Emperor Constantine, that proclaimed religious tolerance and recognized Christianity as a religion along with Pagan worship which was prevalent at the time. Although Dr Ryad did not explicitly state that Pagans population in Egypt was larger than Christians, he indicated that Christian education failed to convince Pagans to convert to Christianity. It was only for Muslims and Amr Ibn El3as who fought the Romans whereas Pope Benjamin was hiding in the desert fearing for his life.

    Secondly I could not keep myself from laughing about your explanation for Mr Sawiris' wealth and let me quote you here “Agree with your claim, and hence conclude too that he also employs 80-85 % Moslem workforce”. I am sorry but help me understand here, are you implying that Mr Sawiris has the courtesy to employ Muslims and not Christians in his companies or that his Muslim employees have been contributing to his wealth. If your answer is the first, I would seriously doubt your credentials as a PR lol.

    Thirdly about Egypt's religion which is Islam, Its decided by the majority of people and the constitution which is again decided by people. So Democracy decides what laws should be instituted and implemented. As far as I know the Egyptian parliament made Sharia as the source of its laws. Christians should abide by the majority decision like in any democracy. Please don't mix things here. Abiding by the majority's rule is not the same as forceful imposition of a religion.

    Fourthly about mixing GDP and religion, there you go again, rephrasing sentences and twisting meanings to serve your purpose. I was simply trying to say that the Islamic revolution in Iran did not lead to the disintegration of their country's economy or productivity and by the way, Japan has a religion if you are not aware which is mainly the Buddhist religion.

    Lastly about Pope Shenouda that he only mixed politics and religion in one instance in his life!!!! Who are you kidding? Wasn't he ostracized by president Sadat for politicization of Copts abroad.?
    I am definitely against any persecution and killing of any Copt and Muslims who do that are condemned by God and should be condemned by society. Egypt has to have anti hate crime laws.

    ReplyDelete
  19. @Hazem (1)

    First
    1. You claimed that I am a PR to Mr Sawiris! Which I dare you could prove, because you know very well that it is just a claim from your imagination or, may be you said it trying to make Sawiris seem like he hires people with his money to defend himself from the accusations you and those like you claim on him.
    2. The funny thing is that you’ve gone far with your naive claim and you believed it yourself and came with a claim that I’m being paid by Sawiris to defend him, but you know what? I love your imaginations, keep claiming that I’m Sawiris’ PR…it feels good to me, if you don’t mind :-D
    3. Although what you mentioned confirmed nothing about Egypt’s religion from 50-700 AD except that it is a Christian nation, especially with the references I gave earlier which confirms the deep roots of Christianity in Egypt, yet, I’ll still give you the benefit of doubt for the claimed excerpt which you brought in the discussion from Dr. Henry Riad’s claimed book “Egypt and old world civilizations” and ask you to choose from one of the following options:

    a. You either really read this excerpt by your own eyes, in Arabic as you claimed and you did a good job getting a translation for it in English. In this case this must be a source of information that we have to consider. And I must find this book in the market or at least mentioned any where over the internet, Or…
    b. You didn’t read it but you rather brought it forward from another person or source to defend your claim that Egypt was NEVER Christian!
    Would there be any other options?

    Looking to option (a), I decided to fetch all possible resources including internet about this book written by Dr. Henry and I found NONE with this name written by the Coptic Dr. Henry.!!!!!! Let me tell you about Henry’s writings, He has a total of 83 writings, 44 of them he wrote by himself and 39 were translation by him or with an associate. His books never spoke about Egypt’s early ages, but rather more subjects about law, constitutions, socialism and more subjects about Sudan’s constitution, etc…And to your knowledge, I found NO single book written or translated by him with the name you mentioned!!!
    Do you want a proof? Here you go, check this link…

    http://www.adabwafan.com/browse/entity.asp?id=2730&rel=0&pg=2&sz=10&sk=date&sa=desc

    On the other hand, considering the possibility of option (b), I thought may be I could find it if I searched in Arabic, so I did my extensive homework and searched all over Google, Yahoo and to my surprise, I found references to this book!!! And you know what these references were? It was couple of sites, who educate hatred towards Copts, yet those sites never brought reliable reference about this book, like registration number or publisher but it was just another alleged lie! And now I know why you referred me to the Priest Zakaria Botros and his way, and why you used this language with me, and why you are defending Islamic parties, etc…because those are the sites which you get your info from. You seem to be well fed from these sites and their naïve way of falsifying and forging the Egyptian history without any proof. You have all the right to choose your sources, but please use credible sources which come with facts not claims and twisting facts.

    Now, who is twisting the facts???…

    And since I’m not a claimer as you are, I came up with proofs, and here are the ONLY links from the hatred sites which you brought the excerpt!!! The writer signs “El Seif el Battar” !!!! seeing those links, I couldn’t distinguish which is the excerpt and which is the writers claims…check it yourself and see how much it is TOTALLY lies and inventing his own history and igniting hatred against the Copts and denying them what all the world knows about them except people like you who denies or know few truths about their Coptic history as you confessed!

    http://www.elforkan.com/7ewar/showthread.php?p=34190

    http://eld3wah.com/noor4/war/cops.htm

    Hazem, although I started to admire that your way is getting more civilized in discussion by getting examples and talking with proofs from your side, but unfortunately all what you brought was “FALSE” proofs and all “Claims” and no reliable source of info!!! You, unfortunately (to you), shot yourself in the foot and hanged your integrity by your own hands with the unreliable or non-credible hatred-driven sites information.

    The difference between you and me is that I don’t use or believe lies or invent assumptions and spread it to others and even believe my own claims, without even doing the minimum check at least for moral integrity, I investigate up to my best knowledge before I publish/claim something, because I was educated on honesty and integrity, because if I lie or try to change history to a person or persons I will be held responsible for straying him/them in front of God. It is part of my self respect too!
    And you inclusively said the reason for these claims about the Copts history in Egypt which was: if you were educated about this history in your school, you wouldn’t have been deceived by those claims that Egypt was never a Christian nation.

    After all, why is it so annoying to you about the fact that Egypt was one day a full Christian nation?! And why are you claiming the opposite? Does it hurt to know who the root Egyptians are and who are not? Copts are proud of being the root because it indicates their real identity and belonging.

    ReplyDelete
  20. @Hazem (2)

    Second
    Am glad that I’m drawing a smile on your face, but I just didn’t get your point about Sawiris’ wealth…from where do you claim he got it then? Are you implying that his projects and business are not helping the Egyptians who are 80-85% Moslems and 15-20% Copts?! My question is still open, Do you prefer that he takes his money and increase it somewhere other than Egypt or do you prefer that he invests in Egypt and employ and feed the 80/20 Egyptian population? He became wealthy in Egypt and outside Egypt, and he is in return employing huge numbers of Egyptians in his companies whom are benefiting him and themselves too.
    Tell me how do you compare him with the billionaire M. El Fayed, who is counted Egyptian yet putting ALL his investment in UK and Europe for British and European citizens to benefit from it? Not only that, but he’s also struggling to get the British citizenship and he is still trying as if he has no nationality and all his battle is reduced to get the British nationality?!! Or shall I mention Talaat Mostafa? Bad examples are many…I think doing this comparison will make you know who the real loyal Egyptian is and who is a hypocrite.

    Third
    Again, you come up with another claim, that the Egyptian parliament made Sharia as the source of its laws, man I started to dislike discussing with you, you are either claims-factory or you really don’t know the history…let me tell you this on behalf of Mohamed Salmawy, I guess you know him, president of the Egyptian Writers' Union, editor-in-chief of Al-Ahram Hebdo and a columnist in Al-Ahram…“when Sadat promulgated a new constitution in 1971 that “HE” introduced, for the first time in the history of Egypt, a clause that Egypt was to be an Islamic country and that the shari’a, Islamic law, would be the source of Egyptian law!!! This of course ran counter to all our Egyptian history and to all that Egypt had stood for throughout the last thousands of years. It was a political maneuver on Sadat’s part. He wanted to appease the newly revived religious power and he thought he could use Islam to counter nationalist and leftist ideologies”.
    See, how dangerous it is to use and mix religion with politics? He was assassinated by the hands of political Islam, or to be broad, the hands of political religion!!! And I don’t think you wish to have a country being ruled with lots of religious interpretation that differ from a group to the other and impose uncertainty. Especially that Egypt has the highest Christian population in the whole Middle Eastern and Arabic world. So now you know where the religious state came from, anything but democracy.
    It is your turn to draw a sarcastic smile on my face…talking about Egypt as being ruled by “democracy” and “institutional laws” where they are applied EQUALLY to all citizens and so and so…and claiming that this is what the majority really wants…this really makes me laugh…So you are convinced that there is democracy in the country? Or am twisting facts here too? And since you are happy with the democracy that brought Islam as the religion of the state, why are you shouting that religious parties should be allowed? Taking example from western countries? Do you mean that the democracy that you are claiming in Egypt is forbidding those religious parties from surfacing because of the danger of mixing religion with state??? Or am I twisting facts again? Please be consistent in your claims, if you claim that the system bringing a religious state by democracy then credibly accept that it is the same democracy that is preventing the Moslem brotherhood from being legal and take control!!!
    So, now I don’t know if I should agree with you that there’s democracy in Egypt or not!!! Especially when Copts are only getting into the people’s council by a presidential order only as a gift or substitution…talking about democracy then means that the same proportion of Coptic population is represented in the ministries and the council and sensitive positions…review your figures and you will see if there is real democracy or not.
    Again, as it seems you don’t want to listen, only a country that respects civil laws, and separates religion from politics gives its citizens the right to equal treatment without discrimination due to race, religion (creed), ancestry, sex, colour, ethnic origin, age, etc, as long as a person is a citizen, and not classifying citizens as “Ahl zemma” or protégés, men and women, which what the Moslem brotherhood clearly mentioned, that they will modify on the constitution when they gain power!!

    Forth
    For the GDP, you were the one who mixed the GDP with a religious country (Iran) and now you are saying that religion has nothing to do with GDP in a religious country. At least I’m glad that we both agree on this point. But you didn’t answer me, how did the Arabs use their knowledge at a certain moment of time (when they had it) to the benefit of their nations and what did they brought their nations to NOW?! And compare that with what the western countries did to their nations by allowing an environment that gets out the best of any person who wants to help humans…examples? M. Zoweil, Nobel Prize holder and renowned Physician in the world, Chemist Mostafa El-Sayed has recently received the National Medal of Science, highest science award in the USA, he also said the following:
    “I am very fortunate and lucky to be doing science in America. There are so many excellent people doing science all over this country,” Check this link to confirm what I said…

    http://www.america.gov/st/innov-english/2008/September/20080929172957adkcilerog0.6593286.html

    Sir Magdy Yacoub, Best Open-Heart surgeon in the world, Botros B. Ghaly, Sixth UN Secretary, etc…Something common in those people? Yeah, they all studied and grew their knowledge outside Arabic, religious oriented countries, yet few of them return some debt to their own countries and work for it, but this is another issue, I don’t want to go through now…what I want to say here is that the environment that separates Islamic, or, religious influence on people brings inventions and innovation to help humans.
    of the record, I’m glad too that you consider Buddhism as a religion.

    ReplyDelete
  21. @Hazem (3)

    Last point
    I don’t know what do you wish for, do you wish the Coptic Pope to practice any political influence or not?

    If you wish that he doesn’t mix his religion with politics, then why you are with the religious parties and defending the Islamic state that much then?!! Or is it allowed for a religion to be political and for another NOT???

    Nevertheless, I guarantee you, if you accept my guarantee, that it was never political moves AT ALL from Pope Shenouda…Am I claiming here? No…here are my explanations:

    • Since you referred to the Sadat time, although you didn’t prove anything regarding mixing politics with religion, and you just insinuated that I’m kidding you, still I’m glad that you brought this up…

    Sadat, during his presidency, violent Islamic fundamentalist groups increased all over Egypt, especially in the Universities. They started to attack the Copts, vandalize their businesses, and burn their churches, which led Pope Shenouda to protest to the government against this repeated violence. In spring 1981, Pope Shenouda refused to hold any public Church celebrations of Easter and didn't receive that year the President's delegates who are regularly sent to greet the Church and Coptic Christians on such occasions (this particular move by Pope Shenouda III was very embarrassing to President Sadat, both nationally and internationally). Pope Shenouda pleaded the Coptic people to fast and pray for 3 days, and because he is so much loved and respected, they did, all over the world. Sadat reacted by issuing a presidential decree to exile the Pope to the Monastery of St. Bishoy, imprison eight bishops, twenty-four priest, leading Coptic lay figures, and ban “El-Keraza" magazine and “Watany" newspaper. Now if Pope Shenouda, as a Pope to all Copts all over the world, doesn’t defend his people and ask for resolution to their sufferings, who should do then??? Or may be I claim that you want him to shut up and accept all the treatment and the persecution that Copts where really suffering that time?!!!!

    • Despite persecution, the Coptic Church as a religious institution has never been controlled or allowed itself to control the governments in Egypt!!! This long-held position of the Church concerning the separation between State and Religion stems from the words of the Lord Jesus Christ himself, when he asked his followers to submit to their rulers: ``Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.'' (Mathew 22:21). The Coptic Church has never forcefully resisted authorities or invaders and was never allied with any powers, for the words of the Lord Jesus Christ are clear: ``Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.'' (Mathew 26:52). The miraculous survival of the Coptic Church till this day and age is a living proof of the validity and wisdom of these teachings.

    And if you wish the Pope to mix religion with politics then you’ll see lots of this politicization of Copts and other countries all over the world to the Copts side in Egypt, which if encouraged and supporte, would bring Egypt to another Iraq or another Sudan, fortunate to all of us, the Pope is patriotic enough to care for his country than anyone else in his place, that he would always refuse outsiders to help Copts with their internal issues with the rulers.

    If you still suspect the patriotism and devotion of the Church to its country, Egypt, I advice you to read an Arabic book with the following translated name “The National Role of the Egyptian Church throughout the ages” written by the historian Dr. Abdel Azim Ramadan, published in 2002 by the Egyptian Books institute…and this book exists, it’s not a claimed one. Please check for yourself! (Transcript in Arabic: El door el watani lel kanisah el masreyah 3abr el 3osoor, tab3et hay2at el ketab, 2002)

    Here we agree again, Egypt should impose anti hate crime laws…all Egyptians will benefit from it, and the majority benefiting from it will be the Copts considering the percentage between hate crimes committed from both sides, provided that it is applied equally and impartially!

    Despite all this, I’m just wondering why Sawiris it being attacked lately especially after he expressed his inclination to a civil country and more secular ideology?! Especially being the most powerful person in the state’s economy, I understand the fear of some that a guy this powerful and influential poses a threat on the thought-for fully religious state especially that he is a Copt…But rest assure…he is not a threat…he is a national directive which seems reviving what Mohamed Ali’s did in his time in the 19’s century, when Egypt shifted to a more secular country, and enjoyed its best times as a modern civil country with a modern army and modern economy and rather modern civil community, though respecting religion so much, and not demeaning it by involvement in state!

    I definitely respect religious people and practices, peaceful ones though…and I hope people should refrain from staining and classifying others based on their religious directives but rather with their value as humans and their value to their community before all…

    At the end, seriously, you don’t know how much you have contributed in solidifying my views and affirm the fact that there is a very unfortunate directive of a religious state which will have to be highly resisted for the sake of the people…
    Thanks for your unintentional effort to strengthen my belief in a civil country!

    ReplyDelete
  22. Dear Zeinab

    Thanks for your polite language and respect in your respone, you are definitely taking a civilized attitude.

    I have some of the response to your comments in my response to Hazem...

    One last thing, regarding the sectarian division...No one accepts the killing of the innocent people AT ALL...it is condemned and should be prosecuted. But kindly have a balanced view by counting how many incidents from this side and how many from this side...you'll figure out that you either don't know about what is really happening against the copts due to listening to a specific group of media or you will really see the unfair percentage between what crimes that happen to the copts compared to what happens to the moslems...

    For interfering with the selection of the president and so, what you refer to is the opinion of one of the bishops and it doesn't by all mean that he is forcing the copts to vote for his choice!!! No one on earth could force a coptic to do a political decision based on a religious order! Trust me, the church never played that role...

    Cheers...

    ReplyDelete
  23. @Hazem (3)

    Last point
    I don’t know what do you wish for, do you wish the Coptic Pope to practice any political influence or not?

    If you wish that he doesn’t mix his religion with politics, then why you are with the religious parties and defending the Islamic state that much then?!! Or is it allowed for a religion to be political and for another NOT???

    Nevertheless, I guarantee you, if you accept my guarantee, that it was never political moves AT ALL from Pope Shenouda…Am I claiming here? No…here are my explanations:

    • Since you referred to the Sadat time, although you didn’t prove anything regarding mixing politics with religion, and you just insinuated that I’m kidding you, still I’m glad that you brought this up…

    Sadat, during his presidency, violent Islamic fundamentalist groups increased all over Egypt, especially in the Universities. They started to attack the Copts, vandalize their businesses, and burn their churches, which led Pope Shenouda to protest to the government against this repeated violence. In spring 1981, Pope Shenouda refused to hold any public Church celebrations of Easter and didn't receive that year the President's delegates who are regularly sent to greet the Church and Coptic Christians on such occasions (this particular move by Pope Shenouda III was very embarrassing to President Sadat, both nationally and internationally). Pope Shenouda pleaded the Coptic people to fast and pray for 3 days, and because he is so much loved and respected, they did, all over the world. Sadat reacted by issuing a presidential decree to exile the Pope to the Monastery of St. Bishoy, imprison eight bishops, twenty-four priest, leading Coptic lay figures, and ban “El-Keraza" magazine and “Watany" newspaper. Now if Pope Shenouda, as a Pope to all Copts all over the world, doesn’t defend his people and ask for resolution to their sufferings, who should do then??? Or may be I claim that you want him to shut up and accept all the treatment and the persecution that Copts where really suffering that time?!!!!

    • Despite persecution, the Coptic Church as a religious institution has never been controlled or allowed itself to control the governments in Egypt!!! This long-held position of the Church concerning the separation between State and Religion stems from the words of the Lord Jesus Christ himself, when he asked his followers to submit to their rulers: ``Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.'' (Mathew 22:21). The Coptic Church has never forcefully resisted authorities or invaders and was never allied with any powers, for the words of the Lord Jesus Christ are clear: ``Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.'' (Mathew 26:52). The miraculous survival of the Coptic Church till this day and age is a living proof of the validity and wisdom of these teachings.

    And if you wish the Pope to mix religion with politics then you’ll see lots of this politicization of Copts and other countries all over the world to the Copts side in Egypt, which if encouraged and supported, would bring Egypt to another Iraq or another Sudan, fortunate to all of us, the Pope is patriotic enough to care for his country than anyone else in his place, that he would always refuse outsiders to help Copts with their internal issues with the rulers.

    If you still suspect the patriotism and devotion of the Church to its country, Egypt, I advice you to read an Arabic book with the following translated name “The National Role of the Egyptian Church throughout the ages” written by the historian Dr. Abdel Azim Ramadan, published in 2002 by the Egyptian Books institute…and this book exists, it’s not a claimed one. Please check for yourself! (Transcript in Arabic: El door el watani lel kanisah el masreyah 3abr el 3osoor, tab3et hay2at el ketab, 2002)

    Here we agree again, Egypt should impose anti hate crime laws…all Egyptians will benefit from it, and the majority benefiting from it will be the Copts considering the percentage between hate crimes committed from both sides, provided that it is applied equally and impartially!

    Despite all this, I’m just wondering why Sawiris it being attacked lately especially after he expressed his inclination to a civil country and more secular ideology?! Especially being the most powerful person in the state’s economy, I understand the fear of some that a guy this powerful and influential poses a threat on the thought-for fully religious state especially that he is a Copt…But rest assure…he is not a threat…he is a national directive which seems reviving what Mohamed Ali’s did in his time in the 19’s century, when Egypt shifted to a more secular country, and enjoyed its best times as a modern civil country with a modern army and modern economy and rather modern civil community, though respecting religion so much, and not demeaning it by involvement in state!

    I definitely respect religious people and practices, peaceful ones though…and I hope people should refrain from staining and classifying others based on their religious directives but rather with their value as humans and their value to their community before all…

    At the end, seriously, you don’t know how much you have contributed in solidifying my views and affirm the fact that there is a very unfortunate directive of a religious state which will have to be highly resisted for the sake of the people…
    Thanks for your unintentional effort to strengthen my belief in a civil country!

    ReplyDelete
  24. Wow, the posts on this blog just demonstrate how much communal relations have deteriorated in Egypt over the last 50+ years.

    Zeinobia, it is much appreciated that you would take the intiative to encourage healthy diaolgue on this blog, so I hope you will be open to some criticisms as well.

    Mr. Sawiris has every right to comment on the veil provided he does so in a respectful manner. The fact that you stipulate his Christian origin suffice to keep his mouth shut on the issue is indicative of some underlying prejudice on your part. He is an Egyptian citizen commenting on a phenomenon in his country. That is what citizens of countries do. They do not just sit by passively if they believe something is taking place that is causing their nation harm. .

    On another note, many people on this blog seem to have misunderstood the nature of some of Mr. Sawiris' responses. Sawiris brought up his Coptic roots in response to what he perceives as a Muslim Brotherhood attempt to reduce minorities in his country to second-class status. It is only natural that he would have to remind such fanatics that not only is he an equal Egyptian, but the fact is--whether people on this blog like it or not--the Copts--as an indigenous community-- pre-date the Muslims. This is not to say that he was implying that Egypt somehow belongs to the Copts; rather, he is suggesting that you cannot reduce an integral national community to dhimmitude by reinforcing history. Again, he was speaking in reaction to the Muslim Brotherhood and not Muslims generally.

    In any case, Egyptians--be they Muslim or Christians--are all COPTS, because historically speaking, the word Copt simply meant Egyptian and it was an accident of history that it became associated over time with the Christian community. As Victor Semeika once said, "we are all Copts--some of us pray in Mosques, the other in Churches."

    You know what, I am impressed with Sawiris not only because he is a good businessman, or that he is ethical, or that he is educated. What I really love about Sawiris is that he is PROUD to be an EGYPTIAN! When was the last time in the last twenty years we had a real nationalist, someone who really worked to make Egypt a better place. I really believe Sawiris has a genuine love for his country and he is doing everything he can to remind all Egyptians--of whatever religion or socio-economic status--that in each of them lies greatness no less than that of the Pharaohs.

    ReplyDelete
  25. He is the most courageous man in Egypt. If there are more people like Mr. Sawiris in Egypt it will retrieve its lost glory and regain its stand among the civilized world

    ReplyDelete
  26. Want to know more about Naguib Sawiris ?

    http://blogs.thenational.ae/cgi-bin/mt/mt-comments.cgi

    ReplyDelete
  27. http://naguibsawirisdisclosed.wordpress.com/2010/05/31/naguib-sawiris-prospering-under-mubarak%E2%80%99s-governement/

    ReplyDelete

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